On Research Podcast – Black Women in Clinical Research: Building Community and Breaking Barriers

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1. Introduction and Guest Background (00:00:12) Alexa introduces the podcast, the guest (Danielle Mitchell), and the focus on diversity in clinical research.
2. Danielle’s Personal Journey into Clinical Research (00:01:25) Danielle shares her background, education, and challenges entering the clinical research field.
3. Discovering Clinical Research and Early Barriers (00:02:30) Danielle describes learning about clinical research, initial struggles, and her determination to gain experience.
4. First Clinical Research Role and Continued Challenges (00:04:38) Danielle discusses her first internship, ongoing rejections, and finally landing a coordinator position.
5. Founding Black Women in Clinical Research (BWICR) (00:05:36) Danielle explains the inspiration behind starting BWICR and its rapid growth.
6. BWICR’s Support Systems and Resources (00:07:39) Overview of BWICR’s Facebook, LinkedIn, app, mentorship, and professional development offerings.
7. BWICR Conference Overview (00:10:18) Details about the upcoming Atlanta conference, its purpose, sponsors, and inclusive atmosphere.
8. Conference Logistics and Registration (00:12:54) Information on conference dates, location, and how to register.
9. On Tech Podcast Commercial (00:13:44) Daniel introduces another CITI podcast, On Tech Ethics.
10. Mentorship in BWICR (00:14:12) Danielle discusses the importance of mentorship, her personal experience, and BWICR’s mentorship program.
11. Mentorship Success Story (00:18:36) A story about helping a military veteran transition into a clinical research role.
12. Barriers Faced by Black Women in Clinical Research (00:20:57) Discussion of layoffs, financial barriers, and BWICR’s supportive measures for affected members.
13. Importance of Diverse Voices in Research (00:22:43) Why diversity in study design and recruitment is critical, with a personal example.
14. Future Initiatives and Goals for BWICR (00:25:02) Plans to expand educational outreach, especially to HBCUs, and increase awareness of clinical research careers.
15. Advice for Aspiring Clinical Research Professionals (00:26:53) Encouragement and practical networking advice for those starting out and seeking representation.
16. How to Connect with BWICR (00:28:43) Ways to find and engage with BWICR on social media and their website.
17. Closing Remarks and Additional Resources (00:29:50) Podcast wrap-up, thanks to Danielle, and information about CITI Program’s research training offerings.

Alexa McClellan: Welcome to On Research with CITI Program, the podcast that explores current issues, trends, and innovations shaping the research community. I’m your host, Alexa McClellan, and in today’s episode, we’re spotlighting a trailblazing organization making a powerful impact on diversity and representation in clinical research, Black Women in Clinical Research, or BWICR. Our guest, founder and CEO, Danielle Mitchell, will share her personal journey, the mission and origin of BWICR, and how the organization supports, mentors, and uplifts its members. We’ll also explore the barriers Black women face in clinical research, and why diverse voices are essential to ethical and responsible research. Whether you’re a seasoned research professional or just starting out, this conversation offers valuable insights on building equity and representation in the field.

All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us, Danielle. I’m really excited to talk more to you, about your organization, Black Women in Clinical Research, and your own background. So to start off with, can you please tell us a bit about yourself?

Danielle Mitchell: Absolutely. Thank you so much, Alexa, for having me. I am super excited to be here. I can’t even tell you how many times CITI Program was a part of my beginning of my clinical research career. So a little bit about me, I am from Detroit, Michigan. I graduated from the Clark Atlanta University with a bachelor’s degree in biology. I just knew that I was going to be a medical doctor, because I had helped deliver my little sister when I was 15 years old. But when I went to college, I decided to pivot. I decided that maybe medical school is not the right decision for me. So when I graduated, there weren’t a lot of career options for someone who has a bachelor’s degree in biology, and I began to work in labs. It was really difficult for me graduating with a bachelor’s degree in biology and not going to medical school.

And so I worked in different labs, and I remember when I was working in the lab, and I called it the dungeon, because there was no windows, and I was doing the same thing every day, all day. During this time, I went to a pool party, and I ran into a college classmate, and she told me that she was a clinical research associate. She told me that she gets to work from home, she gets to travel, she’s making over six figures. And I was immediately interested, because at the time, I was working in a clinical genetics laboratory making, I want to say, $35,000 a year. So I really began to question what am I doing wrong with my life, because I wasn’t feeling successful at this point in my career. And when she told me about clinical research, I had never heard about clinical research.

In my undergrad, we talked about research in animals, but we never talked about research in humans, so when she talked about clinical research, I really thought about my grandmother, who had breast cancer, and I wanted to make a difference, and so I felt like clinical research was the perfect merge between science, medicine, all together, and that is something that I’ve always been passionate about. And I was like, “Okay, well, clinical research is the best career option for me.” But it was so hard trying to land my first clinical research role. I tell people it is not for the week. When you are trying to transition into the clinical research industry, there are a lot of challenges with getting in. I know for me, it was as if my transferable skills weren’t transferable. Every clinical research role that I applied to, I was rejected, and so I started looking at myself. I said, “Well, what’s wrong with me?” Self-reflecting, “Is there something wrong with my resume? What can I do to improve my chances? What can I do to just get an interview?”

So at that point, I decided to pivot and go on clinicaltrials.gov, find the nearest sites, and ask them, “Can I shadow, can I do an internship,” just to gain that clinical research experience. Because so many of the roles, even though they said they were entry-level, they required me to have two years of experience. I didn’t understand it then, I still don’t understand it now, but I did what I needed to do in order to gain that clinical research experience. So I cold-called the clinical research site, and one of the sites, it was in Smyrna, Georgia, it was a small Black-owned clinical trial site, and I asked them, “Can I shadow, can I do an internship,” and they said yes. So that started the foundation that I needed in order to get started in the clinical research industry. And even after having that internship, I applied to jobs and was still rejected. So it wasn’t until I went home and applied for a role as a clinical research coordinator, that I was able to start my work experience in the clinical research industry. But my journey was not easy to get in.

Alexa McClellan: So tell me how that inspired you to found Black Women in Clinical Research and how this organization helps your members.

Danielle Mitchell: Absolutely. So when I was a clinical research coordinator, I went to an investigator meeting, and I guess I’m just thinking of this right now, yesterday, was our six-year anniversary. So six years ago, I went to this investigator meeting, and there were hundreds of people in the room. And out of those hundreds of people that were in the room, there were only two Black women, including myself, so it really made me question whether or not there was a lack of diversity in the room, or if there was a lack of diversity in the industry. So after this investigative meeting, I was so inspired, that I started this Facebook group. And I wanted to connect with other people like me, who may have experienced some of these same challenges. I wanted to know, is everyone having a difficult time with getting into the clinical research industry? Are there some resources that we can share that will help us get into the clinical research industry and further our career?

And so from this Facebook group, just fast forwarding to today, we have over 10,000… I think there’s 11 actually. Sorry, I misspoke. It’s 11,000 Black women that are in this Facebook group.

Alexa McClellan: Wow.

Danielle Mitchell: And so it’s amazing to say. A lot of times, I’m speechless when I think about it, because who knew from just having an idea, that this could turn into a company that is helping people all over the world. We have members that are in Germany, we have members that are in Canada. A lot of times, I’m amazed when someone reaches out to me, and says, “I’m a member of your organization,” and I’ve never set foot in these countries. But for the power of LinkedIn, LinkedIn has helped reach a lot of people across the world, and so when it comes to the lack of diversity in the industry, it’s not just in the US, it’s all over.

Alexa McClellan: So how does Black Women in Clinical Research support its members, professionally and personally, within the research field?

Danielle Mitchell: Absolutely. So we have, I would say, three different ways that we support Black Women in Clinical Research. We have the Facebook group, which is a great way to connect with other people. And then we also have the LinkedIn group, which is a great way to connect with people professionally. And then we also have the app, which is the paid membership for people who want more. So we have different topics in the app, so whether you are a CRC or a CRA, or a project manager, monthly, we have meetings to talk to people in these roles, to see, “Okay, how can we help you perform your job better? What type of support do you need?” Because we know that the clinical research industry is very challenging, and a lot of times, people are walking this journey alone. And when you are a clinical research professional, you should not be walking this journey alone, because it can be difficult, and you need someone in your corner that can talk to you as well.

And so with the BWICR membership, we also have the mentorship program that we do. We have a software that matches people with other clinical research professionals, so that way it’s helping you with your goals, and being able to talk to someone one-on-one, that can help you and can give you insight and feedback on things that you can improve in order to be a well-rounded clinical research professional. And so we have our Wind-down Wednesday, which we had yesterday. We had someone talking about financial literacy. So yes, we are clinical research professionals, but we also have topics that help one another. We have a mom topic, we have so many different things. Like if you are in a certain state or city, we have topics that are regional, so that you’re able to connect with other people and you have the opportunity to ask for questions. There’s job postings, and there’s opportunity to get a referral from someone in the BWICR app.

We also have for the members, if you’re a gold member, gold member and purple member, I should say, you receive a discount to attend the conference, and you also receive a free resume review if you are a gold member. So we wanted just to be able to offer a lot of different resources. I wanted to be able to offer people resources that I wish I would’ve had when I was starting in the clinical research industry.

Alexa McClellan: You mentioned some great services, and you did mention a conference, and so I wanted to give you the chance to talk a bit about the conference that’s coming up. It’s in Atlanta, right?

Danielle Mitchell: Absolutely. Atlanta is my second home. Because I graduated from Clark Atlanta University, I have some deep roots in Atlanta, and I have a lot of family that live in Atlanta, so going to Atlanta is a homecoming. And what’s also funny about this as well, it is actually my homecoming. Because I’m having the conference, I’m not going to be able to attend the Homecoming, but it’s okay. I’m still in Atlanta, and you might see me with Clark Atlanta shirt on, or something, during that weekend. But this is an opportunity to network and to come together, and to meet different companies that are there as well. So some of our sponsors are BMS, AVI, and there’s a lot of CROs, [inaudible 00:11:08], so there’s a lot of different companies that are there. Acclinate is also one of our sponsors. Clinically, I don’t want to leave anyone off, but I know that there is a long list of people that are sponsoring the conference that have been supportive.

And we really just want to have a different type of conference, because a lot of times, when you go to clinical research conferences, someone’s trying to sell you something that you’re not going to use. And so when it comes to our members, I ask people, like, “What are you looking for when you go to a conference?” And most people want to either hear about the roles at the company, the work-life balance, the work culture, just finding out about job opportunities as well. So we wanted to just create this space so that people can have these conversations, and have them in a comfortable setting. We have a DJ that is throughout the whole conference.

Alexa McClellan: Oh, wow.

Danielle Mitchell: Yes. Music is a vibe for me. So I love music, and I love how music… The energy that happens when you have music, and how you can just change your mood, so we have the DJ on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. I am even thinking about having a skating party as well, so on Thursday. So it’s just really a great opportunity for all clinical research professionals to connect. Even though this is called Black Women in Clinical Research, this is open to anyone in the clinical research industry, anyone that wants to get involved in the clinical research industry. And so we just want to be able to be, I would say, that beacon, that beacon of light that shows what it actually means to be inclusive and to have different voices at the seat at the table.

Alexa McClellan: And tell us when that conference will be and where are we located at?

Danielle Mitchell: Yes. October 24th through the 26th, at the Western Atlanta Perimeter North, I believe. It’s a really nice hotel, about, let’s see, 30 minutes probably, from the Atlanta airport. So it’s going to be a great event. I’m super excited about the topics and the speakers, and just, I think we’re five weeks away, if I’m correct, from the conference.

Alexa McClellan: Yeah.

Danielle Mitchell: So we’re just in the thick of it with finishing the final touches, and I would love for anyone to join if they can. But yeah, it’s going to be a great conference.

Alexa McClellan: And how would our listeners sign up for that conference if they wanted to attend?

Danielle Mitchell: So you can go to bwicr.com, that’s the short link. But yes, if you go to bwicr.com, you can register from that website.

Daniel Smith: I hope you’re enjoying this episode of On Research. If you’re interested in conversations about technology ethics, join me, Daniel Smith, for CITI Program’s podcast, On Tech Ethics. You can subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Now, back to your episode.

Alexa McClellan: So let’s transition to some of the other services that you offer, specifically you mentioned mentorship. And so I would love to hear about how mentorship factors into your mission, and what does successful mentorship look like in your organization?

Danielle Mitchell: Yes. So mentorship is really big for me, because in my undergrad, I had a mentor who poured into me. Her name is Dr. Melissa Green Parker. She was the first Black scientist that I saw. This was when I was in my undergrad and I was working at Morehouse School of Medicine, and we were in a research lab, and this was the first time that I had someone who wasn’t related to me pour into me, and believed in me before I believed in myself. When you are in college, you’re just in, I would say, a stage of your life where you’re trying to build, and you’re trying to grow, and you’re trying to figure out what you want to do with the rest of your life. But she saw something in me at that time, and she just really helped me. I like to say she helped mold and sculpt me into who I am today, because she poured into me, and because she gave so freely. She would even buy me interview clothes and buy me a gas card.

I never had anyone that wasn’t family do that for me, so that really stayed with me. That stayed with me throughout my whole life, and so when it came to Black Women in Clinical Research, it was no-brainer why we should have a mentorship program. So I wanted to be able to give back like my mentor gave to me, and to be able to cultivate these relationships with the BWICR members. I think it’s so important for your career to have a mentor, to have that sounding board, a person that you can express challenges, the good, the bad, the ugly, and for someone to give you sound of advice, and tell you, “Okay, these are some options that you should think of.” And also having someone to advocate and be a sponsor. I think a lot of times, we talk about mentorship, but we don’t focus a lot on what it means to be a sponsor.

Taking it a step further from being a mentor, and actually connecting people to people in your network, to say, “This is a person that I met, these are their skills that they possess. I think that they would be a great candidate for this role.” So I wanted to be able to give back, and for people to feel empowered in their career, and to know that they’re someone rooting for them, like I said, that’s not family. And a lot of these relationships that people have created from the mentorship program, it’s still ongoing. I am still connected to my mentor from college, and I will be telling my age, but it’s 20 years since I graduated from college, this year. So just to have her in my corner, and she still shows up for me to this day. She lives in Washington, D.C, and so if I go to Washington and she knows that I’m there, she will pick me up. We will go out to eat. We’re still having conversations, and the mentorship relationship now has evolved, because now I am, in return, helping her.

And so I think that that’s the beauty of having a mentor and having someone pour into you, because I want to be able to pour into her like she poured into me, and to let her know how much I care about the relationship that we were able to build and how she helped my career. So I’m forever grateful for her, and I want our members to have that same type of relationship, where they have someone that is always going to be there and rooting for them. And I guess to me, that’s what successful mentorship looks like, making those strong connections in a mentorship relationship that helps you throughout your whole life. And it’s perfectly okay to have different mentors as well. You can have a mentor for different things that you’re trying to do in your career, whether you’re trying to get a promotion, or you have a mentor that really knows the ins and outs of HR, and if you have a situation where you have a difficult manager. So it’s okay to have different mentors in your life that can help you.

Alexa McClellan: Yeah. So I love hearing your personal story with mentorship. Do you have any other stories that you’d be willing to share about how Black Women in Clinical Research has helped women in their careers?

Danielle Mitchell: Absolutely. Alexa, there are so many stories, but I’m going to tell you about a story about one of our members who was a military veteran, and she was looking to transition into the clinical research industry. I remember I went to a conference maybe a few years ago, and I met her, and immediately, I liked. I liked her personality. I was like, “Okay. Oh, my goodness.” I’m like, “You’re amazing,” when I met her. And when she was talking to me, she embodied a CRA. So at the time, I told her, I said, “I see you as a CRA.” And I had to ask her, I said, “Are you sure you’re not a CRA?” I said, “The way that you’re talking,” I said, “You sound like a CRA.” And she was like, “No.” And I was like, “Okay.” And I even told her the company, I said, “I feel like with your military background,” I told her, I said, “PPD, Thermo Fisher, they have a military program.” I told her, I was like “That is what you should aim for, using your military background to transition into that company.”

And I want to say two weeks later, she had a interview with PPD, Thermo Fisher, and she landed that role. And I was just amazed with how you have this conversation with a person, you speak life into them. And now, to actually see the fruit of that, to see on the other side, that she actually landed her role, and she was able to go from the military into a civilian role just because I helped her. And so that, to me, that is an indescribable feeling, just to know that I’m helping to change people’s lives like this. And I couldn’t be more grateful for the opportunity to be this person in people’s lives to make a difference.

Alexa McClellan: Yeah, that’s wonderful. I love to hear that.

Danielle Mitchell: Thank you.

Alexa McClellan: So you shared some great examples of the impact of Black Women in Clinical Research, but I’d love to turn to the broader landscape of representation in clinical research, and so can you speak a bit about some of the key barriers that Black women face in clinical research and how your company is working to overcome them?

Danielle Mitchell: Absolutely. So there are a lot of barriers. Right now, a lot of our members have been laid off. I know that a lot of people have seen the report, when they said 300,000 Black women have left the workforce.

Alexa McClellan: Wow.

Danielle Mitchell: And a lot of our members have been affected by these layoffs. So we are creating a space where we can have conversations, and we can help our members who are experiencing these layoffs. With the conference, our members who have been laid off, we’re offering a reduced price for them to attend, because I don’t want anyone that’s a member to feel like they can’t come to the conference because of their financial situation, so that is something that we want to offer. And also, with our college students as well, being able to attend the conference. And if you’re a college student, a lot of people know, your funds and your coins, you have to count every penny and nickel and dime, so we wanted to also offer this to the college students to attend the conference.

And so we just are, I would say, supportive. We just want to make sure that our members feel comfortable with sharing what they are going through, and we’ve just had this platform to where people can do that, where they can tell us what’s going on. And if we have the ability to help, and to connect them with someone that can help them, that is what we are doing. So we have created this safe space for our members, and letting them know that whatever they may be going through, that they’re not the only one, and that there are a group of people who want to see them win, so how can we support you?

Alexa McClellan: Yeah. Can you speak a bit about why it’s important to have diverse voices involved in study design and recruitment, and clinical research as a whole?

Danielle Mitchell: It is important to have diverse voices involved in study design, recruitment, and data analysis, because we need diverse perspectives. And within clinical research, we know that historically, that clinical trials are conducted on white males. So if we have a Black community, a Latino community, a Asian community, we know that these drugs are not safe and effective for those communities, and this could be a life and death situation. I know specifically when I’m thinking about my own family, my father was prescribed a drug that caused an allergic reaction, and his doctor had prescribed it for him because he had high blood pressure, and he ended up in the hospital. His lips swelled up, his throat swelled up. And I remember going to the hospital and just seeing my father, and just talking to him, and telling him. I use it as a teachable moment. I do this with my family, I’m pretty sure that they don’t like it when I do this.

But I told him, I said, “That’s why it’s important for Black people to participate in clinical trials.” I was like, “Because this reaction that you had, this could have been life or death.” And not only did his doctor prescribe this medication to him, he prescribed it twice to him, and so he ended up in the hospital twice. And so I always tell my dad, and after this conversation, because I use this as a teachable moment, he looks up any of the drugs now, that his doctor prescribes to him because he remembered that experience. And that’s why it’s so important to have people that can speak about that, and who know about people maybe in their communities that had any type of adverse reactions, and just to make sure that the voices of the people in that community are involved in the study design. And so it’s so important to be connected, and it’s so important for people, like Black Women in Clinical Research, to be involved in their community, so that we can make sure that we are putting the patient’s voice first.

Alexa McClellan: Yeah, absolutely. So we talked a bit about the current challenges and the opportunities, and so to wrap up, I’d love to look at the future of what Black Women in Clinical Research is doing and what’s next for your organization?

Danielle Mitchell: Absolutely. There have been several challenges, but with our initiatives and our goals, we want to continue doing what we are doing at a larger scale. So we’ve been connected with a lot of colleges and universities, so really taking that to the next level. I know for me, just thinking about the young Danielle, I wish I had someone show up on my campus to talk about clinical research. I have been in conversation with a lot of the HBCUs to see what can we do, how can we help the students learn about clinical research? Because especially at my university, the focus was going to medical school, and so I didn’t really have a lot of options about other careers because I didn’t have anyone there that was showing up, and say, “This could be a career option for you.” So our initiatives, I would say, really have to do with education and awareness.

So educating the younger generation, bringing awareness to our community, about clinical research and the benefits of clinical research. And I know that there are going to be challenges. There’s always challenges when you are trying to create a path that hasn’t been created before. And so I’m just very hopeful with having these challenges, that the people that have supported BWICR will continue to support us, and that we can make more shifts in the industry. I know that people have said that we have made some shifts, but I want to make some bigger shifts, and I want people to really know about clinical research, and whatever we can do to help this, especially with having this platform.

Alexa McClellan: Yeah, okay. And finally, what advice would you give to someone just starting out in clinical research, who may not yet see themselves represented?

Danielle Mitchell: I would say don’t get discouraged. I would also say to use your network, start connecting with people. It is never too early to start networking. A lot of times, I meet people in high school, and I ask them, “Do you have a LinkedIn?” So starting early to network, getting comfortable with networking, because sometimes networking can be uncomfortable, but if you are doing what you need to do, creating a LinkedIn profile, having a head shot, different things, before you even become a clinical research professional, making yourself a well-rounded clinical research professional by connecting to as many people as you know. Because a lot of times, it is not about what you know, it is about who you know, so being able to connect with people in the industry, connect with as many clinical research professionals as possible, to connect with clinical research professionals that hold the position that you’re interested in.

So whether it’s a CRC, CRA, project manager, surround yourself around those clinical research professionals as well. And if you don’t feel represented, make sure that you are connecting with people who look like you. And I feel like it’s so important to have that space and to be connected with people who look like you. And so don’t give up. And that’s my main thing, don’t give up, don’t get discouraged. It’s okay to take time away. I tell people this too, when they’re applying for roles, but hang in there, find your tribe, connect with Black Women in Clinical Research, come to our conference. Shameless plug, but it’s really about finding people who share those same values and passion.

Alexa McClellan: That’s wonderful. And finally, before I let you go, let our listeners know again how they can learn more about Black Women in Clinical Research.

Danielle Mitchell: Yes. So we are pretty much on all the social media channels, so whether you are on LinkedIn, you can type in “Black Women in Clinical Research.” Facebook as well. TikTok, I’m not doing any dancing, but we are on all the social media channels. You can go to our website, bwicr.com, if you are interested in collaborating or partnering with us, that is an option as well, because we always need support. So if you are supportive of our mission, we would love to have that conversation as well. So feel free to connect with us on all of the social media channels. On our TikTok and Instagram, it’s bwicr20. So yeah, that’s how you can connect with us.

Alexa McClellan: Wonderful. And I will put links to your pages and your website down below, in the notes, so that our listeners can easily access that as well. Danielle, thank you so much. It’s been a joy talking to you, and I think it’s a wonderful mission, and hopefully we can let more people know about it.

Danielle Mitchell: Thank you. Thank you so much, Alexa.

Alexa McClellan: That wraps up today’s episode of On Research with CITI Program. A huge thank you to Danielle Mitchell for sharing her experiences and the inspiring work of Black Women in Clinical Research. If you’d like to learn more about Black Women in Clinical Research, their mentorship opportunities, or their upcoming initiatives, be sure to visit Bwicr.com.

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