On Campus Podcast – Navigating FAFSA: History, Reforms, and Future Challenges

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1. Introduction to the Podcast (00:00:15) The host introduces the podcast and guest Kent Barnds, discussing the focus on financial aid.
2. Kent’s Career Path (00:01:25) Kent shares his extensive experience in college admissions and enrollment management over 30 years.
3. Importance of Financial Aid (00:02:46) Discussion on how financial aid has become increasingly important for families amidst rising college costs.
4. History of FAFSA (00:04:02) Kent outlines the evolution of the FAFSA process and its significance in financial aid applications.
5. Types of Financial Aid (00:08:37) Overview of the financial aid types available through FAFSA, including Pell Grants and federal loans.
6. Documents Needed for FAFSA (00:12:29) Kent discusses necessary documentation for FAFSA completion, emphasizing the joint effort of students and parents.
7. FAFSA Simplification Act Changes (00:15:01) Introduction to the FAFSA Simplification Act and its goal to streamline the financial aid application process.
8. Challenges of FAFSA Simplification (00:18:30) Kent explains the difficulties faced during the rollout of the simplified FAFSA, affecting students and universities.
9. Impact of FAFSA Issues (00:23:24) Discussion on how the FAFSA rollout challenges created delays and frustrations for families and institutions.
10. Looking Ahead to FAFSA 2023 (00:26:28) Kent addresses expectations and concerns for the upcoming FAFSA cycle, emphasizing the need for a functional form.
11. Importance of FAFSA Submission (00:28:29) Emphasis on the necessity of completing FAFSA for maximizing financial aid eligibility.
12. FAFSA Simplification and Technology (00:29:18) Insights on the potential benefits of FAFSA simplification and the role of technology in the process.
13. Reassuring Families During FAFSA Process (00:30:43) The need for reassurance and patience for families navigating the FAFSA amidst changes.
14. Challenges for Low-Income Families (00:32:11) Addressing the digital divide and strategies to assist low-income families in completing FAFSA.
15. Community Engagement for FAFSA Completion (00:34:44) Importance of partnerships with community organizations to support FAFSA completion efforts.
16. Misconceptions Among First-Generation Students (00:36:52) Common challenges faced by first-generation students related to sticker price and financial aid perceptions.
17. Educational Role in Financial Aid Awareness (00:37:54) The need for clearer information and inspiration for students regarding financial aid eligibility.
18. Final Thoughts on FAFSA and Higher Education (00:38:50) Encouragement for inspiring students to pursue higher education and maximize financial aid opportunities.

Ed Butch: Welcome to On Campus with CITI Program, the podcast where we explore the complexities of the campus experience with higher education experts and researchers. I’m your host, Ed Butch, and I’m thrilled to have you with us today. Before we get started, I want to quickly note that this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not designed to provide legal advice or guidance. In addition, the views expressed in this podcast are solely those of our guests. Today’s guest is Kent Barnds, the Executive Vice President for Strategy and Innovation at Augustana College. He also serves as the Vice President of Admissions, Financial Aid and Communications and Marketing. Welcome to the podcast.

Kent Barnds: Thank you. It’s great to be with you, and I look forward to our conversation today.

Ed Butch: I’m looking forward to it as well. And this is a very timely conversation as well as fall semesters and quarters are beginning all across the country. And we have students and families that are already starting to think about financial aid and completing FAFSA for next year. But before we really dive into it and get into some of these things about FAFSA, can you just tell us a little bit about yourself and your career path?

Kent Barnds: Sure, I’d be happy to. Thanks for that and I look forward to this conversation. So I’ve worked in the college admissions and enrollment management space for 30 plus years at two different institutions. I’ve served two private institutions, so I work with families from all different socioeconomic backgrounds as they navigate both the college search and selection process. In my current role at Augustana where I’m entering my 20th year, I have oversight of the admissions, financial aid and communications and marketing function. And so interface with prospective students and their families and their support network as they’re navigating the college search process and trying to make a great decision. And that’s what we really try to focus on is trying to help lay the breadcrumbs, provide the guidance and answer questions that they have as they’re making a really important decision.

Ed Butch: Definitely, definitely. I mean, when I was working in higher education, recruitment was a major part of my… I worked directly in an academic college, but it is, it’s wonderful work for those students and families and everything, and it’s great to be able to help them through that process. And you have a lot going on with admissions, financial aid, communications, marketing. That’s a lot for sure.

Kent Barnds: Yeah. Well, they all connect. I mean, it’s really about helping students understand processes but also distinctions, and then getting down to the really important essential pieces of how do I make the cost of this institution manageable? We take a pretty comprehensive approach at Augustana. We attract an applicant pool of about 10,000 students annually and enroll an entering class, a first year students of about 675 with another 80 or so transfers, and our students come from across the globe. I think in the entering class, we had 33 international countries represented in 26 states. And it’s just great to work with these students as they’re trying to find themselves and find the best fit.

Ed Butch: Yeah, definitely. Fantastic. That’s great. Such a wide swath of students and everything from all around. And you mentioned of course, obviously the financial aspect being a major part of this, and that’s what we’re really here to chat about today. So though I’m guessing most of our listeners are familiar, but can you talk to us a little bit about FAFSA and give a brief history and how it’s evolved over the years?

Kent Barnds: Yeah, I’ll do my best to do that. Financial aid has always been an important consideration for families and certainly in my 30 plus years, it’s of all. I oftentimes run into alumni or parents of prospective students and they look at the advertised cost of a college and they’re like, gosh, I don’t know how we’re going to do this. I don’t know how families today do this. Because when I attended, I could work a summer job and work during the school year and afford the full cost. And so financial aid and applying for financial aid has taken on greater importance as these gross prices or those advertised prices have increased on college campuses. So there’s always been a pretty formal process of applying for financial aid. And that process, which will relate to our conversation as we get further into our discussion today, has been largely controlled by the federal government, has involved the federal government and their oversight and their effort to sort of standardize a formula of distributing federal financial aid.

That has also sort of translated to in many states the distribution of state financial aid as well. So always been an important process, but I think an even more important process today than ever before, which is why this year was such a difficult year for many because the process that we’d all become pretty accustomed to was broken. Now I will say… I do want to say that there has been a really interesting and helpful evolution over the 30 years that I’ve been in this. The financial aid process for much of my career happened really, really late in the student’s decision making journey. We used to not receive financial aid information until after family’s tax returns were done.

And we wouldn’t get that ICER from the federal government until February, March. I remember when I used to celebrate that we would have a financial aid award out in February. It was usually the last day of February, but I could say that we got one out. But really it was one of these things where that price piece or that net price piece was at the very end of the student’s journey. They were finding out what it actually cost to attend in March or April, which sort of was bumping up against May 1st. A few years ago, both the higher ed industry and the federal government recognized that that timetable wasn’t serving students and families well.

And what was called at the time, early FAFSA was introduced with this federal form becoming available on October 1st. And that was a huge game changer and accelerated the financial aid process and I think served students really, really well. And we’d been going along with a pretty good rhythm of that release up until… And we’ll talk about this later, the FAFSA Simplification Act and the disruption of the process last year. So we’ve seen some really good things over the years and I think things that have really benefited students, which is what the financial aid process is really all about.

Ed Butch: Yeah, definitely. Well, and as you mentioned, we want to definitely get to the Simplification Act and some of the issues that we ran into last year, but I do want to get into a little bit more of the details of it first though as well. And I guess I should mention, I don’t think that I ever actually said, but FAFSA again, for those out there that might not know, the free application for federal student aid is what we’re talking about when we mention that as well. So I guess looking at it, that was a great history and really fantastic in depth and everything. But I guess, what are the types of financial aid that students are receiving when they apply for FAFSA? And I guess really at least at this point, maybe some of the key deadlines that they need to be thinking about?

Kent Barnds: Yeah. So let’s just talk sort of philosophically. So the FAFSA has always been designed to be a measure of a student’s eligibility for financial aid. So once upon a time, the FAFSA determined what was referred to as an expected family contribution. And that figure was interpreted as this is what a family can afford to pay for college, with FASFA simplification that is now called the student aid index, which is actually probably more accurate term because what it’s saying is here’s approximately the resources that a family may have. And so colleges, other post-secondary institutions now based on what your cost is, what a student’s eligibility for financial aid is.

And so in regard to federal eligibility, this process that we engage in on an annual basis determines eligibility for one, the Federal Pell Grant, which goes to the neediest or those students who have the highest demonstrated financial need and is a key component of keeping the cost of college affordable and accessible for families from all of different socioeconomic backgrounds. That’s one of the key components. And in fact, the FASFA Simplification Act really could be interpreted as a process to determine eligibility for the Federal Pell Grant.

Now the second piece of this is that submitting the FASFA is an application to take out a federally supported direct loan. And again, the largest financial aid program the federal government has is the direct loan program, and a student may not borrow through that direct loan program unless they have submitted the FASFA. So those are the two primary elements. As I mentioned, it also though, the FASFA is used on a college campus to determine eligibility for need-based financial aid and other programs that might be available on a campus. And many state agencies and organizations use the FASFA to determine eligibility. I work… And Augustana College is located in Rock Island, Illinois, the state of Illinois has a very generous need-based grant program called the MAP Grant Program, the Monetary Assistance Program, and they use the results from the FASFA to determine eligibility for $8,300 grant. And so those are some of the uses of the data that’s derived from the FASFA.

Ed Butch: Great. And I know for me, when I was working again in student recruitment and retention, we were getting requests from students about helping out with books or with some of their tuition and things like that. And that was one thing that I always had to check to make sure they had FASFA on file so we could determine that eligibility as well. So I think that’s a really great key point that it’s not just necessarily for these federal loans, but it’s something that universities are using for some of their own distributions as well.

Kent Barnds: Exactly.

Ed Butch: My hope is maybe we have some parents, some students out there that are listening to this podcast and thinking about having to go through this process, but really the process still, I think requires information from both the student and the parents. So can you talk a little bit about some of the documents and data that they should have ready when they go to fill out the application?

Kent Barnds: Yeah. And it really is still a joint process, and so I appreciate you mentioning both the student and the parents or the support network because it really is a joint process to complete the FAFSA and submit the necessary information. Now, I will say that one of the great things about FAFSA simplification… And I’m a believer, I believe that everyone’s intentions are good in making this process easier and simpler for families. The hope is that through FAFSA simplification, the gathering of documents is not going to be as important because of the interface between the Department of Education and the IRS in verifying information. That was one of the key points for FAFSA simplification. But in short, some of the documents and documentation that has been important in the past are tax returns.

Much of the information that is gathered is through tax returns and tax records. And that’s where FAFSA simplification and this interface between the Department of Education and the IRS is so important because it can make the process even easier and more transparent for students and families. But I will say that one of the things that has changed in the process is this year, students are expected to identify contributors. In the past, we would’ve referred to contributors as parents, but sometimes there are stepparents involved. And that’s been one of the terms that I think has tripped some students up in this process as they’ve been working through a FAFSA simplification and completing the FAFSA. But the most common resources are going to be tax returns and an available parent ready there to sort of help.

Ed Butch: Great, great, thank you. Well, let’s get into the FAFSA Simplification Act a little bit. And it is being rolled out in phases. And so I guess you mentioned a little bit so far, but what are some of the changes that have been already introduced and what are we seeing I guess, in the coming years and how those are benefiting the students as well?

Kent Barnds: Conceptually, FAFSA simplification, which was introduced in this past year, so the 2023/2024 FAFSA year was designed to do a couple of things. Ask fewer questions of students and families. That’s a good thing.

Ed Butch: Yes.

Kent Barnds: Use some other existing identifiers in order to determine eligibility for the Pell Grant. So if a student or a family is receiving other federally subsidized or supported programs, there would be automatic consideration or approval for the Pell Grant. That’s a good thing for families.

The third thing, which I mentioned previously is this data retrieval and the automation and the interchange of information between the FAFSA and the Department of Education and the IRS. That’s a positive thing as well. So the last thing I would say relative to that, one of the changes is that the formula changes also suggest, and I think it’s playing out before rise, that more students will be determined to be eligible for the Federal Pell Grant. That’s a good thing as well for families. So there’s a lot to celebrate, right? A shorter, tighter, easier process. The potential to identify more students as being eligible for the Pell Grant, the automation and interchange of information is a good thing. All of those are good things and I think are things that we should celebrate, and we hope that all of the kinks will be worked out. So all of those things come to fruition in this coming cycle.

Ed Butch: Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, those are very positive. I remember filling it out when I was an undergrad and what seemed like hours, and maybe it was hours that it took me to fill it out. It was crazy.

Kent Barnds: Well, they’ve said for a long time that it takes a PhD to complete the FAFSA and takes hours or whatever, and my wife and I did it. We have a junior at St. Louis University, and I will tell you that once we were able to get in and complete the form, it was much easier. Now, I do want to make sure that as I talk about my experience, my experience does not reflect the experience that many had, and there were a lot of flaws. So all of the things that we should celebrate and that we hope will become universal to students and families, they were not universal in this first year of the rollout.

Ed Butch: Yeah. Well, let’s jump into that. So we obviously saw the Department of Ed introduced this new simplified version last year. There was a lot of issues. And so can you talk about some of those a little bit more in depth and how it both affected students and families as well as universities?

Kent Barnds: Yeah, last year was a rough year. There’s no question about it, and I appreciate the hashtag FASFA Fiasco, which gets a lot of use on LinkedIn and another resources. I think it’s putting it mildly to say that the rollout was rocky. It was promised that the new form would be available in the month of December. Many of us had bets on whether that would be the case. And while the Department of Education fulfilled their promise to have it available in December, it was late in the month and it was sporadic availability. And I think that that was just the first sign that it was going to be really rocky. Because it was not fully accessible to families. Families were being timed out. They weren’t able to complete the process. And that carried into the month of January. And I think created a lot of frustration for students and families as well as college and universities. Because we had been operating in good faith as we were working with our partners at the Department of Education thinking that it would be available and communicating when it would be available.

And so we got kind of… As college of universities caught up in the mass of a rocky rollout and a slow rollout. So even once the form was opened, there were still remaining issues about availability and time that it took to complete. And so those were some of the really early challenges. I think the greater challenge is that there were a number of families, let’s say mixed status families where one parent has a social security number and another parent does not, that were not able to complete the FAFSA in a timely manner or at all in some circumstances. And so we just kept on seeing things that clearly not been tested in advance of the form going live. And so that I think led to a great deal of frustration on the part of families.

It led to increased administrative responsibility for colleges and universities. So for example, one thing that we oftentimes would do is we would make corrections to the ICER, the student’s record once we were able to verify some information. We still can’t do that. We at Augustana had identified a population that was struggling with being able to complete a FAFSA, and these were US citizens who were living abroad. And so you sort of have a double whammy of a parent who doesn’t have a social security number and also has an address outside of the United States, and that’s a student who sort of falls out of the sort of predictable populations.

And that’s been a challenge to address. And so it just seemed like time after time through the course of this year, notwithstanding I think a good and Herculean and noble effort on the part of the Department of Education, but deadlines were missed. The technology didn’t work, there wasn’t clear communication. And as a result, a lot of families and students were hurt by this. And we see that with the overall FAFSA submission rates for this year trailing pretty significantly previous years.

And that’s not because students and families don’t have financial need and they chose not to submit the FAFSA. I mean, that’s not what that sign is. It was that the process that they were either discouraged because of their experience or were discouraged… And I’ll take some responsibility for this. I mean, I think that college and universities panicked a little bit, and we probably delayed some students from completing the FAFSA in a timely manner because we were asserting our own frustrations with things. So it was a complicated year, very complicated year. So that was probably a long answer, but time delays, technology glitches, and just a lack of responsiveness really challenged everybody involved.

Ed Butch: Yeah, yeah. No, no, thank you for that. That was a fantastic explanation and really getting into the key points there as well. And I think for me, as you were really explaining that, I’m, again, going back to my time working in recruitment or retention and thinking about how we were normally getting student deposits in January, February, and they’re confirming with us, and at this point you’re really pushing into March, April, may and things like that. So obviously those processes are all going to take longer. It’s going back to kind of the old days of forcing the families into that much later timeframe. So that definitely would cause some issues for sure.

Kent Barnds: Yeah, and the thing is that I found… I mean, we’ve really tried to be proactive. We wanted to provide an estimated net cost to families, especially if they were really interested in. So we had a couple of different ways that we went about this. We asked for tax returns and looked at tax returns in comparison to previous tax returns and tried to come up with an estimated net cost. We did some individual calculations. And what we found is that that really didn’t help accelerate a student’s decision. They really wanted to see that best and final offer.

And anytime that there was the term estimate or estimated on a financial aid award that we sent out, it didn’t change behavior. And I understand why. I mean, I think that the whole cycle just created so much uncertainty on the part of students and families to make a final decision. So we really went back to that time when the FASFA became available on January 1st, and we started getting results in mid-February and did the majority of our awarding in the months of March and April. We went backwards from where we had been with the October 1st availability. You begin awarding, and many of your awards are going out in November and December and January, and students have a longer runway to make an informed decision. And given the magnitude and the importance of knowing net costs for all the options, we need to get back to a point where we give students and families the adequate amount of time to make that decision.

Ed Butch: Yeah, no, agreed completely. Well, I guess let’s fast-forward now where we made it through, the school years are starting now, right? The new academic years and October 1st is soon approaching at this point. What are we looking at this year? How have things happened for this upcoming year for FAFSA?

Kent Barnds: Well, notwithstanding our great and coordinated effort as enrollment management and higher ed professionals, we were unsuccessful in getting the Department of Education to ensure that there’s a fully functional form on October 1st. So we are not where we’d like to be. We have received some assurances that a fully functional, and I think that that is the term that the Department of Education is using, that a fully functional FAFSA will be available in December. Now we’ve heard in December before, and whether that means December 1st or December 31st, last year, our experience was December 31st. But we will be on a delayed timetable again this year as the Department of Education with some supplementary resources works through some of the challenges that were experienced this past year. All I can do is remain hopeful that we really will have a fully functional FAFSA in December of this year, and that some of those populations that were left out in this previous cycle, their concerns and their challenges will be addressed successfully. And we can go about our work of serving families well in this coming academic cycle.

Ed Butch: Definitely. Definitely. Well, you have obviously some great experience and things like that, and I wonder… As you were chatting there a little bit, I was kind of wondering myself, I bet you have some good tips potentially for some enrollment management and financial aid professionals out there that might be listening. So is there anything that you can think of to share some knowledge for those that might be listening?

Kent Barnds: Well, I think… Let’s talk about this year, which is a year which could create uncertainty again. I think it’s our job to do three things, especially related to this issue. First and foremost, we need to continually reiterate that completing and submitting the FAFSA is critically important for every single student across the country that is eligible to do so. A student will never maximize their financial aid eligibility without submitting the FAFSA. And so I think we need to be champions for this first and foremost. The second thing, I think we have to be champions for and enthusiastic about the promise of FAFSA simplification

That more students are likely to be eligible for the Pell Grant, that this is going to be a simpler, more straightforward process, and that we’re allowing and inviting technology to do more of the work for us. I think we have to be cheerleaders for that. And then the third thing is this, I think incredible responsibility we have is to be reassuring and to ensure that people operate with patience through this process. Again, I reflect on myself and I’ll hold myself accountable and responsible. I probably was a part of the problem last year when I kind of threw up my hands and everybody was to blame. And we were telling families, well, wait until all the glitches are worked out. Well, if they would’ve waited until all the glitches are worked out, they wouldn’t have never ever submitted it. And so I think we made an error there.

So I think reassuring families is critically important. This is such an important piece of the student’s college decision-making journey, understanding what net cost is and anything we can do to provide some reassurance, some comfort, some counseling. That’s what we need to be all about, to try to get more first-in-their-family students on the college pathway to get those who maybe are non-native speakers less familiar with this process on the pathway because the promise of a college education in the United States is an incredible promise, and we need more of those students who’ve maybe been discouraged by experience to take advantage of college and all it has to offer.

Ed Butch: Yeah, agreed. Agreed. Thank you for that. For sure. I mean, obviously we know when there’s anything, any sort of large scale changes like this, there’s always going to be speed bumps. So I think that that’s a great tip in terms of just taking a breath as a professional and knowing that that’s going to happen and reassuring our students and families that there might be some speed bumps while they’re filling this out, but we still need them and want them to do that so that they can receive those packages then throughout the spring as well. So I think those were some fantastic tips. I do want to circle back though to a couple of things. I kind of jumped a little bit into our conversation on that, but you mentioned a lot about working with students from low socioeconomic statuses.

You just mentioned a little bit about first generation students, and I know a lot of times something like FAFSA can really be a major issue for those groups of students. So I was wondering if you just had any thoughts, I guess starting with low income and low socioeconomic families. To me a lot of that is really about the digital divide, right? In terms of that. So how do you see that impacting low income families and maybe if you’ve seen anything that has helped those families be able to complete the FAFSA as well?

Ed Butch: Yeah, so really great question. I’m glad you’re focused on and interested in this population. Because it’s the population that I think it’s showing some signs of non-consumption of higher education, and that’s not a good thing for the population or a good thing for higher ed or a good thing for our country and economy in general. There are a couple of things. I mean, first we have to… In higher ed, we have to continually make the case that we’re worth it.

And we have to showcase our relevance to these populations that may have a little more suspicion of us, little more question of the ROI. So it’s incumbent upon us in higher ed to make the case. We also, I think, have a responsibility to fill in where that digital divide might exist, and whether that means sponsoring on campus FAFSA completion nights or afternoons or sitting down one-on-one and helping a family complete the FAFSA. I think that there’s a role that we can play. I really admire so many community-based organizations across the country that serve in that role and serve in that role so effectively. And I think that colleges and universities can do so similarly. And so where there is an absence of resources, we have an abundance of resources that we can lend to that if we make the effort to get those families here.

I think many, many families across the country would be astonished at the amount of financial aid that is available to make the cost of college manageable. And they’re never going to find that out, right? If they don’t engage in this process. And so I think we also have the responsibility of sparking the imagination in these students and families to discover what really is available out there. I’m really proud at Augustana. We had a very generous donor who stepped forward in March of 2022 with a $40 million gift, which is actually a challenge gift.

And we hope to be able to, over the course of a few years, raise $80 million that goes towards in-depth financial aid. And it’s a program that’s allowed us not with every student at Augustana, but with a large proportion of students to promise to meet 100% of their demonstrated financial need. And it’s amazing to me in our entering class, about 10% of the students are students who have a student aid index, where they are eligible for almost the entire cost of Augustana. And we’re able to find financial resources and financial aid, federal, state loan, institutional aids that make this place manageable from a cost perspective.

But we can’t illustrate that if we can’t inspire a student to engage, if we can’t provide them with the resources and support. And most importantly, if we can’t convince them that what we do is worth it to them today and tomorrow and for their lifetime.

Ed Butch: Yeah, they are for sure. Well, and congratulations on that gift. That’s fantastic and an amazing thing to be able to do. But I also really enjoyed that you mentioned the community organizations that are out there, and I think some really great opportunities for institutions to partner with those community organizations as well to host some of those FAFSA nights like you mentioned also. So I think that’s great. And when we look at first generation college students, obviously again, they’re the first in their families to be attending. I guess, what have you seen as some of the common misconceptions or challenges that they face when it comes to FAFSA?

Kent Barnds: Well, the first starts before they even get to the stage of completing the FAFSA, and that is the reaction to sticker price and thinking that that’s what they’re going to be up against. And higher ed has some responsibility for that. We know that about two thirds of high school students eliminate colleges because of sticker price, so they don’t even get to the point of applying and submitting the FAFSA and then ultimately understanding what their eligibility for financial aid is. So I think the real challenge that they face is a challenge of not crisp information. And again, we have some responsibility for that in higher ed, so we’ve got to inspire more of them to understand that that sticker price is not what the net price is going to be and get them to take the steps that are important. There’s an old saying in enrollment management that 100% of students who don’t apply, don’t get admitted.

And that’s true.

Ed Butch: That is true.

Kent Barnds: The same is true when it comes to submitting the FAFSA. 100% of the students who don’t submit the FAFSA have no idea what their potential eligibility for financial aid is. And so it’s really educational and inspirational role that we’ve got to play as we think about those first and family members. And sometimes we’re not great at that. We can get jargony pretty quick. We can make some assumptions about what a family may know, and so we’ve got to meet them where they are and inspire them into the enterprise that we operate with.

Ed Butch: Definitely. Definitely. Some great tips, some great information. I really appreciate that. I guess I just wanted to give you an opportunity. Any last thoughts on the process as a whole or anything that you wanted to get out there to our listeners?

Kent Barnds: Well, let me just say I’m really grateful for the conversation. I’m glad that you are focused on the FASFA and its role in making higher ed accessible and costs manageable. So I’m grateful for you focused on this topic and grateful for the conversation. I believe your listeners with the thought that we all have a responsibility to inspire students to pursue higher education, and we all also have a responsibility to support each other through these few months that could be rocky as we look at the FASPA rollout hopefully in December of this year. But I remain a little concerned about college going rates, and I think that that’s why we all have to work together to change the trajectory we’re on, to inspire more students to explore their full options, maximize their eligibility for financial aid and pursue higher ed. It’s the greatest investment that a student can make in themselves. And the FASFA piece of it is a big piece of it. So I really appreciate your time today.

Ed Butch: Yes. Well, and thank you. I appreciate it. I’ve enjoyed, I think as I mentioned, when we were emailing, seeing your posts on LinkedIn as well, and being a part of the conversation, the national conversation that’s out there. So thank you once again and for sharing your experiences with us.

Kent Barnds: Hey, thank you. I appreciate it very much.

Ed Butch: I invite all of our listeners to visit citiprogram.org to learn more about our courses and webinars on research ethics, compliance, and higher education. I look forward to bringing you more expert guests to discuss what’s happening on campus.